CBS 2.0 / CBS Overhaul

CBS Development & Testing
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CBS 2.0 / CBS Overhaul

#1

Post by XIII » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:07 am

This thread is to discuss planned and upcoming changes to the CBS as well as a fairly sizable overhaul in terms of how many of its aspects will be handled. The changes will be listed in the post below.
Last edited by XIII on Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total. word count: 39

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Re: CBS 2.0 / CBS Overhaul

#2

Post by XIII » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:40 am

Global Changes:
CBS Guide:
Proposed Adjustments: Creation of a CBS guidebook to more exhaustively explain the various workings of the system and how the stats should and do work.
Additional Notes: This is an attempt to mitigate misuse/understanding of the CBS while adding a go-to reference point for all things CBS related.

Introduction of Substats:
Upcoming Adjustments: Substats to be implemented into the CBS as a means of expanding combat depth, as well as fill some holes left by the current CBS.
Additional Notes:

Introduction if “X-level” Stats:
Upcoming Adjustments: Implementation of the final and most powerful level any stat can have. These stats are to reflect the final stages of the canon material, and to truly allow for “beyond captain-level” character progression.
Additional Notes: X level stats will not only reflect the late stage of the canon, but also serve as a form of “endgame” for character progression, as well as serving as a mark of status and accomplishment as well.

Level Cap Reduction:
Upcoming Adjustments: Reduction of the CBS level cap in consideration of the substat addition. Substats will be used to manage the level bloat.
Additional Notes: The extent of this change is dependent on the next point.

CBS Level Restructuring:
Proposed Adjustments: Cleaning up the overall CBS level system and implementing a more well rounded level cap.
Additional Notes: This would be done in response to a proposed separating of the Reiatsu and Reiryoku stats. This would bring the total amount of Stats & Attributes to a total of 10 rather than the odd and hard to work with 9. From there I would essentially change all other stats to max out at 10 levels, rather than the 11 they currently do. This would bring the base level cap to an even 100 instead of 99. Further changes in regards to level/character progress may be coming. Updates will be delivered as necessary at the appropriate times.

Stats:
Proposed Adjustments: “Stats” as listed under all versions of the CBS to be renamed to “Attributes”. Additional clarity to be added to the Attributes distinction to further what these they mean. In accordance with this Attrributes affect the potency or maximum (offensive/defensive) potential of “Disciplines”. Furthermore additional tooltips will be added to both Attributes and and Disciplines to explain their functions and limitations in added detail.
Additional Notes: Mostly done to clarify any confusions surrounding how certain stats are supposed to work.

Disciplines:
Proposed Adjustments: Adjustments made to how these stats work. As well as further distinctions made between them and attributes to be as follows: Attributes will govern potency/overall potential, while disciplines will affect their overall effectiveness. This means their ability to achieve success when attempting various actions (attacking, defending, dodging, etc.), as well as accuracy and other factors that purely revolve around skill and or knowledge surrounding said discipline. As such, without the proper strength, reiatsu, endurance or durability, the overall potential of disciplines will be low.
Additional Notes: This is mainly a means to establish, clarify, deepen, and strengthen the differences between power and effectiveness.

Specific Stat & Attribute Changes

Reiryoku:
Proposed Adjustements: Implemented to separate the amount of spiritual energy from the strength of spiritual pressure/spiritual power.
Additional Notes: Canonically speaking this is the case. The separation of Reiatsu and Reiryoku is mainly done to better define the amount of spiritual energy a person has and make the usage of said energy much easier to keep track of, especially in consideration of X level stats. This is also a measure to prevent the X level Reiatsu stat from being too powerful.

Reiatsu:
Proposed Adjustements: Removal of aspects referring to the amount of spiritual energy a person has and instead positioned purely as “Spiritual Strength” effectively allowing it essentially 1:1 parity with the strength attribute.
Alternative Proposal (highly unlikely): Establishing Reiatsu as a substat as canonically speaking the strength of one’s Reiatsu is generally governed by the amount of Reiryoku one has, and this would be more easily reflected in substat form since it would be easier to link Reiatsu to Reiryoku as a substat.
Additional Notes: This is actually a massively important change here, and because of this it’s likely to happen in some form or another. Establishing it as it’s own stat separate from amount would allow the CBS to accomplish a few things, mainly being able to more directly and specifically governing the strength/potency of spiritual-based techniques like Cero, Kidou, etc. as well as the strength of Zanpakutou abilities (in the case of Kidou-type Zanpakutou), and more spiritually focused abilities of other races. This would give it parity status with the strength stat which governs the potency and strength of Zanjutsu and Hakuda.


Hakuda:
Proposed adjustments: Hakuda descriptions adjusted to include an understanding of the body, as well as its defenses. With application of this understanding, dismantling those defenses, or finding ways to cripple opponents more easily becomes possible. This will also apply defensively. Knowledge of the body will included understanding how to block certain attacks in order to mitigate the potency of the effective forces / direct them away from vital points of the body.
Additional notes: This is mainly in regards to knowing weak points and how to hit them in order to maximize damage, especially against sturdier opponents. That said the maximum potential of that damage is still dependent on strength, but this opens the door for more critical blows to be dealt.

Zanjutsu:
Proposed Adjustments: Zanjutsu descriptions adjusted to include an understand of various forces, and how to apply them to the blade. With application of this understand, finding ways to effectively cut through various forms of defenses, armors, etc. becomes possible.
Additional Notes: Changes are made to fall in line with Hakuda and allow for more critical/decisive blows to be dealt.

Strength:
Proposed Adjustments: Potency of the strength stat increased for A grade and beyond. Strength description adjusted to more directly govern the potency of offensive stats (Hakuda/Zanjutsu).
Additional Notes: Increasing offensive potential moderately to significantly on various levels in order to offset the power of durability.

Durability:
Proposed Adjustments: In response to my long-standing belief that durability is not only a major issue with the CBS and is in my opinion without a doubt the most powerful stat, it will be nerfed. However this is an indirect nerf that will take effect through increasing the effectiveness and strength of offensively oriented stats.
Additional Notes: This is not only being done as a means of effectively reducing the power of this stat and somewhat rebalancing it, but also to make overly-powered defenses a bit more difficult to achieve as well. I want to make defense more a matter of smart play than something that occurs naturally or doesn’t require much effort. Also, given the nature of things it would be better if the system skewed more in favor or offense anyway, as “who can turtle the hardest” doesn’t particularly lead to interesting battles.

Reiatsu Control:
Proposed Adjustements: Increases potency for Shinigami on all levels, specifically the level of Kidou available for all levels with and without full power incantation. Separation of Shinigami and Arrancar descriptions.
Additional Notes:


Zanpakutou Mastery:
Proposed Adjustements: Separate descriptions for Arrancar and Shinigami. Expanded descriptions to fall in line with Togabito’s Immorality stat.
Additional Notes: Zanpakutou Mastery will stand more in line with the other offensive stats. Attempts will be made to have it act as nearly self-contained discipline like Hakuda and Zanjutsu. Further adjustments may be introduced as a result of the discussion or with further thoughts on this matter.


Substat System


The substats to potentially be implemented, along with their functions are as follows:

Note: that the core idea of substats is still in the conceptual phase. So the names, functions, as well as how these will play into character progress is yet to be determined. The current number as well as other aspects of these substats may change wildly with time.


Adaptability:Reflects one’s potential for growth and development, determines the number of traits a character may have.

Affinity: Reflects the potential of one’s Reiatsu to gravitate towards one element or another, and how strong that elemental influence is.

Versatility: Reflects one’s flexibility in combat and how capable they are of learning many skills.

Responsiveness: Reflects how well one’s body can respond to sudden events or how sharp and how fast their reflexes are.

Perception: Reflects how fined tuned one’s senses are, and how likely they are to detect things. Whether by smell, hearing, sight, or spiritually.

Devotion: Refers to one’s dedication to their own natural abilities. Those with high devotion are more capable of using skills unique to their race.

Second would be one that governs X level stats and 3rd tier releases (probably needs a better name). Also might need some conceptual adjustments as well.

Aptitude: Refers to ones potential to grow beyond their limits. Those with high evolution are able to break past their limits and attain powers unlike any other. This would be tied to X level stats and 3rd tier releases (potentially something else as well).
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CBS 2.0 / CBS Overhaul

#3

Post by Fluxarc » Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:53 am



I've read through the above descriptions and proposed changes - and I'm terrible at reading :p- and its a very in-depth, very thorough, very sturdy system. I do fear, though, it might get too complicated. With all these substats and such.

As I mentioned in my PM, Thirteen, I'm proposing an alternative system, one that maybe drops all numeric input and focuses solely on writing and roleplay participation for character progression. I'll try to explain best I can, but, a caveat- I suck at explaining these things.


So, I love Mass Effect. And it's got this character skill progression system where some abilities are grayed out until you level up to a point with some other abilities. This is the basics of the new system I'm proposing. Thirteen's proposed system of Stats/Attribute and Sub-stats would still apply, but its the mechanics and stat-nesting that changes.

So, in my proposed system, which we will call the Fluxarc For-The-Win System, will have five main skill categories

--Hoho
--Zanjutsu
--Reiatsu Control
--Hakuda
--Reiryoku

Now, each main skill, or Stat, will have sub-stats, like so,

--Hoho

|
Innate Speed, Agility, Reflexes, Footwork, Flash Step*



--Zanjutsu

|
Swordsmanship, Weapon Versatility, Zanpakutou*



--Reiatsu Control

|
Reiatsu Streaming, Defensive Reiatsu, Reiatsu Oppression/Crush, Kido*



--Hakuda

|
Unarmed Combat, Taijutsu(?), Strength*



--Reiryoku

|
Reiatsu Perception/Reikaku Senken*



Now, some of these sub-stats will simply be applied in the descriptions for each rank within an attribute. There would be Seven ranks: Unskilled, Practitioner, Combatant, Expert, Master, Grandmaster, Transcendent. So, for the Combatant Rank of the Hoho attribute, you'd have something like this,

Hoho- Combatant|
- Having mastered the basics of martial arts footwork, I have gained peak level human innate speed and reflexes, and near-olympic level agility.


Short, but this is just an example. As you can see, agility, reactions, speed and footwork are dealt with in one stroke, but no mention of Flash Step here. Instead, Flash Step will be unlocked at a certain rank, being Expert, in my opinion. There, you can then forgo the main Hoho skill progression and instead, if you choose, focus on spending your points on Flash Step alone. In this sense, while your innate speed might be lower than another characters, your flash step would be higher, allowing for more depth in combat.

In the tree I made above, you'll notice some substats with an asterix (*). These would be the unlockables, like Flash Step. Think the brancing trees in Dying Light, if you've played it. You can deepen a brancing substat, or just keep along the main stat.

I'll go into more detail with the other trees, but I wanted to get this idea down quickly, cos I tend to forget these things.



Last edited by Fluxarc on Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total. word count: 464
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#4

Post by XIII » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:41 am

Fluxarc wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:53 am


I've read through the above descriptions and proposed changes - and I'm terrible at reading :p- and its a very in-depth, very thorough, very sturdy system. I do fear, though, it might get too complicated. With all these substats and such.

As I mentioned in my PM, Thirteen, I'm proposing an alternative system, one that maybe drops all numeric input and focuses solely on writing and roleplay participation for character progression. I'll try to explain best I can, but, a caveat- I suck at explaining these things.


So, I love Mass Effect. And it's got this character skill progression system where some abilities are grayed out until you level up to a point with some other abilities. This is the basics of the new system I'm proposing. Thirteen's proposed system of Stats/Attribute and Sub-stats would still apply, but its the mechanics and stat-nesting that changes.

So, in my proposed system, which we will call the Fluxarc For-The-Win System, will have five main skill categories

--Hoho
--Zanjutsu
--Reiatsu Control
--Hakuda
--Reiryoku

Now, each main skill, or Stat, will have sub-stats, like so,

--Hoho

|
Innate Speed, Agility, Reflexes, Footwork, Flash Step*



--Zanjutsu

|
Swordsmanship, Weapon Versatility, Zanpakutou*



--Reiatsu Control

|
Reiatsu Streaming, Defensive Reiatsu, Reiatsu Oppression/Crush, Kido*



--Hakuda

|
Unarmed Combat, Taijutsu(?), Strength*



--Reiryoku

|
Reiatsu Perception/Reikaku Senken*



Now, some of these sub-stats will simply be applied in the descriptions for each rank within an attribute. There would be Seven ranks: Unskilled, Practitioner, Combatant, Expert, Master, Grandmaster, Transcendent. So, for the Combatant Rank of the Hoho attribute, you'd have something like this,

Hoho- Combatant|
- Having mastered the basics of martial arts footwork, I have gained peak level human innate speed and reflexes, and near-olympic level agility.


Short, but this is just an example. As you can see, agility, reactions, speed and footwork are dealt with in one stroke, but no mention of Flash Step here. Instead, Flash Step will be unlocked at a certain rank, being Expert, in my opinion. There, you can then forgo the main Hoho skill progression and instead, if you choose, focus on spending your points on Flash Step alone. In this sense, while your innate speed might be lower than another characters, your flash step would be higher, allowing for more depth in combat.

In the tree I made above, you'll notice some substats with an asterix (*). These would be the unlockables, like Flash Step. Think the brancing trees in Dying Light, if you've played it. You can deepen a brancing substat, or just keep along the main stat.

I'll go into more detail with the other trees, but I wanted to get this idea down quickly, cos I tend to forget these things.



I’ll keep it mostly short here but there’s a couple massive problems here. Part of which I covered in my PM but this is an entirely different system and thus there’s no more CBS as a result. Also what you’re suggesting means more substats than what I suggested. Also half of the substats are either literally what the stats are, such as Zajustsu literally being swordsmanship in this case, or being inherent to what the stats are as well. As is the case with Hohou being footwork, speed, etc. Reflexes are debatable, and Shunpo is actually the only thing that makes sense as a substat as it is a technique derived from Hohou, while not necessarily being Hohou itself.

Zanpakutou stuff can’t be governed by Zanjutsu as that’s far too limited and doesn’t adequately or accurately cover the various types of zanpakutou and their releases. There’s a logical reason why these things stand on their own.

Also the ranks thing was, again, is/was literally how it works however this is done at the description level rather than named at the rank level for design ease purposes. No further details here.

That said I want to make it very clear that this is an overhaul NOT a ground up redesign as you’re proposing here. So, as much as I try not to do this, I’m going to have to leave a hard no in response to what you’re suggesting. The amount of work necessary to realize your proposals needs to be made painfully apparent. Especially when it comes to things on my end, so we need to keep things as iterative as possible. Let’s be real, in the end l 90% of the work will fall on me to accomplish, as is the case is most other areas. So, a redesign is out of the question with respects to my time, and the amount of work that this will require.

So please keep things focused on refining what exists already, and what’s being proposed.

Massively late edit: Felt the need to add this. Despite my stance I will try to incorporate some of your ideas. I can’t rebuild the whole system but I can use some of the elements you’ve discussed. Chiefly the adjusted ranking system... I just... need time to plan how to do that nicely.
Last edited by XIII on Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:49 pm, edited 2 times in total. word count: 875

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CBS 2.0 / CBS Overhaul

#5

Post by Nilgathor » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:59 am


Hello everyone...

I just read the posts and yeah, as Flux said, truly in-depth adjustments. So I'll simply add my agreement to the fact that some stats are being reviewed as should be.

That aside though, Flux’s branch stats system appeals to me greatly. Perhaps cause I’m a gamer. Still, I understand what XIII says about the intense workload it’ll require to do such afresh. But the reiatsu control section of that branch touches something that always bothered me. Take for instance, due to some reasons behind my character’s reiatsu nature, its density makes it hard to form up as spells and such, yet, should work easily to create a reiatsu defence. Yet, the current system denies me that function, completely tying reiatsu-control to kidō usage.

Long story short, I’ll appreciate if the adjustments allow users to have reiatsu-control for other purposes without necessarily being kidō/cero users.

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#6

Post by Fluxarc » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:11 am


@XIII - I dabbled in coding a long time ago- nothing fancy, just some GW Basic, so I got enough of a taste to know that coding can ... be ... HELL. So I get your stance.


@Nilgathor - just want to underscore your point. I believe kido should be part of reiatsu control, and not the other way around. I think it should be possible for a death god to eschew kido, but still be able to control his reiryoku output/reiatsu as he wishes, at high levels.

The same with strength. I think strength should be determined- to an extent- by close-combat training, while still giving the option to be developed on its own.

I also don't feel like Reiryoku should in any way determine physical strength in combat, unless through reiatsu enhanced techniques, which would depend on reiatsu control, and not reiatsu or reiryoku on their own.

A

One other idea I had, which I actually really began thinking about after playing first Fallout 4 and then Divinity: Original Sin, is the idea of Action Points.

I keep going back to the Soifon-Ichigo fight on that rooftop during that wedding thing. Soifon overwhelmed Ichigo with hakuda strikes, because she was just so much faster than him at that.

So, the basic idea is the faster a character is, the more AP he gets a post. That's the basic thing. Then it can be expanded from there to have sub-definitions for Swordsmanship, Hakuda and Flash Step.



And, on Swordsmanship, I still think Zanpakutou should be tied to it. To learn your Zanpakutou's name requires using your sword, wielding it one way or the other. That's swordsmanship. And then, when your swordsmanship has developed to an extent, you'll be able to do that meditating over the sword thing and meet with and unlock your release.


Then there's Reiatsu Senken, the ability to see with the spiritual sense, which- according to multiple sources including Bleach wiki- actually takes over during combat between spiritual beings, eventually determining to a great extent the outcome of the battle. This isn't something that's yet to make a concrete appearance in the stat system, either here, or even in previous incarnations of the forum, to the best of my memory. And it is SUCH a cool ability, so cool I incorporated it into Kara Masters' (my character) powers- a very advanced for of it, anyway. And this ability is tied to Reiryoku.

Those are my thoughts for now. Hope to post up some more soon.

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#7

Post by Akugaranwa Itachi » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:50 pm

@Nilgathor - just want to underscore your point. I believe kido should be part of reiatsu control, and not the other way around. I think it should be possible for a death god to eschew kido, but still be able to control his reiryoku output/reiatsu as he wishes, at high levels.
Eh I don’t think you really get what Nilgathor was trying to say here. He never said Kido shouldn’t be part of Reiatsu control but said it shouldn’t be only Kido being part of Reiatsu Control. One can have Reiatsu Control but cannot cast Kido but can still do other stuffs with Reiatsu Control such as Reiatsu defense, shaping Reiatsu and firing it at a target and so on.....it should have other functions besides Kido and Cero......I think that’s what Nilgathor was trying to say here.
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#8

Post by XIII » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:49 pm

@Fluxarc I may have found an elegant solution to your issue with substats, and how to incorporate them nearly as prescribed. Would allow me to incorporate them without altering the system dramatically (if at all) and actually would allow me to expand the CBS as well as address certain issues without changing how it works much either. The only thing likely not to happen is likely the handling of certain aspects but the rest should be doable.


And to everyone else here. That’s means you @Nilgathor and you @Akugaranwa Itachi please also take a look.


Revisions to substats:

Most things presently listed as “substats” will be revised to act more like extensions of normal stats, where upon investing levels will either add certain modifiers to the main stat’s description, or provide an additional description that will be appended to the main stat (highly likely to be this).

The revisions will be as follows:

Main Stat: Hohou
Substat: Responsiveness
Description: Governs body and physical attack speeds (through either Hakuda or Zanjutsu), as well as Shunpo Distance/Speed and how well one is able to react to, and interpret highspeed actions.

Mainstat: Zanpakutou Mastery (/Equivalents)
Substat: Devotion
Description: Governs mastery over one’s release abilities such as shikai and bankai. This also dictates one’s mastery over specific racial abilities. This will allow for use of 3rd stage release like Perfected Bankai, Hogyoku-Fusion, etc.

Mainstat: Zanjutsu (and Equivalents)
Substat: Versatility (Likely to be renamed)
Description: Governs effectiveness using swords and other weaponry, as well as one’s ability to use that to pick apart enemy defenses. This will also govern your ability to develop, learn, and use techniques relating to weaponry.

Mainstat: Hakuda
Substat: Versatility (Likely to be renamed)
Description: Identical to Zanjutsu

Mainstat: Reiatsu
Substat: Affinity
Description: Not only determines the raw strength of one’s spiritual presence, as well as the potency if spiritually focused attacks, it also reflects how likely one’s Reiatsu is able to gain an affinity towards a certain element and manifest as such.

It is likely that perception will become the substat of reiryoku and that aptitude would become the substat for strength however I am still evaluating the specific handling of these. It is also likely that substats will be attached to all mainstats and add a variety of different functions to them. This is still being evaluated.

I am also considering a system wherein stats with not yet determined substats would be open for a bit of “customization” so to speak. There would be a list of optional substats where people could differentiate theirselves from others.

For example one person could have the “Brutality” substat for strength that could do something like massively augment the destructive potential of all physical attacks. Allowing them to become more of a Kenpachi type or person. Where as someone could have the “Focus” substat where they able to more easily focus in order to deal critical or decisive blows against weakened targets.

This is still under consideration however so feedback and suggestions would be welcomed here.

That said, substats will scale and develop based on your main stat level. Thus, a C in Hohou will allow you access to C-grade responsiveness (approximately speaking).

As it is currently, all stats are based on a letter grading scale E-S+. However there is no “-“ distinction as of yet.
So what will be following these revisions is fairly simple. For example, all descriptions for “C” level grades would be reclassified as “C-“. All “C+“ descriptions would be downgraded to “C”. C+ would instead mark the next stage of your substat’s development.

So every “+” stage would increase the power of your substat.

What this does is allow me to more seamlessly integrate the substat system and accomplish all I sought to accomplish with it, all whilst effectively eliminating the need to actually integrate changes to the CBS’ coding. I would only simply need to “move” the current descriptions and add a handful of new ones to accommodate (which was what I was already planning to do). I can also keep the CBS level progression in check since I can decide to have either “+” or “-“ level stats (highly likely to be the former) not count as level increments. This would keep the numbers the same as they are now, or what I’m intending them to be later on.

So effectively this change effectively reduces my workload to simply writing a lot of new descriptions and editing the current ones a bit to included their substats. The rest is editing the bbcode tags for all the preexisting stats to reflect the other changes I need to make.


Further changes not related to substats:


Clearer stat descriptors to be added.

In addition to letter grade system, each grade will also be accompanied by a “Mastery Descriptor” as per Fluxarc’s suggestion. Though this was originally going to be the case with the CBS as per its prototype design.


Thus

E : Novice

D: Practitioner

C: Combatant

B: Expert

A: Master

S: Grandmaster

X: ???


This is largely in line with the mastery descriptors listed on the each wiki. The only additions being the Novice, Grandmaster, and X-level designations.

Let it be noted that the drop down menus for selecting stats will be updated accordingly. Only + and - grades will be displayed as normal. Mastery designation will replace everything else. Also let it be noted that these descriptors will be added to the stat sheet with added emphasis and visibility.
Last edited by XIII on Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:04 pm, edited 3 times in total. word count: 919

One who calls upon the ocean never expects the tsunami.
For beckoning the rains, also tempts the hurricane.
When simple kindling begs the wildfire,
A furious inferno to devour the lands.
And to say a prayer is to provoke the wrath of God.
Know ye not your foolishness?

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#9

Post by XIII » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:44 pm

And now I can....
Fluxarc wrote:
Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:11 am
I also don't feel like Reiryoku should in any way determine physical strength in combat, unless through reiatsu enhanced techniques, which would depend on reiatsu control, and not reiatsu or reiryoku on their own.


Agreed and just to lock this in right now. Strength will dictate physical strength period. Reiatsu is spiritual strength period. And Reiryoku will dictate their spiritual energy reserves in much the same way endurance does for physical reserves.

So it’s very clear where and how physical and spiritual power will work.


A

One other idea I had, which I actually really began thinking about after playing first Fallout 4 and then Divinity: Original Sin, is the idea of Action Points.

I keep going back to the Soifon-Ichigo fight on that rooftop during that wedding thing. Soifon overwhelmed Ichigo with hakuda strikes, because she was just so much faster than him at that.

So, the basic idea is the faster a character is, the more AP he gets a post. That's the basic thing. Then it can be expanded from there to have sub-definitions for Swordsmanship, Hakuda and Flash Step.


This entire concept. Also partly why I want the Reiatsu/Reiryoku split because it’s adding definition to how much exactly one can do with spiritual power.

That said how to balance this is going to be very problematic and I desperately don’t want things to skew towards speed in the way I can foresee it going. As awesome and as perfect as it would be to tie it to speed, I think it would make it too favorable as more speed would mean more you could do in a given post. Perhaps... let’s make this either level based or as the substat for endurance. Either would make sense. Character level represents one’s overall battle experience, and thus could lead to being able to perform more actions without leaving openings for counter attacks. Endurance because you would have the stamina to perform multiple actions in succession without tiring. For your consideration.

Reiryoku would work the same way, just AP for spiritual abilities. Though currently, it’s mostly more like MP. This be adjusted to be both however.

And, on Swordsmanship, I still think Zanpakutou should be tied to it. To learn your Zanpakutou's name requires using your sword, wielding it one way or the other. That's swordsmanship. And then, when your swordsmanship has developed to an extent, you'll be able to do that meditating over the sword thing and meet with and unlock your release.


Still no can do. We actually have Zanjutsu masters with not much affinity for the Zanpakutou at all. Aizen, Kenpachi and Yoruichi being the the most notable examples (Kenpachi especially). Also we have people who’s use of their Zanpakutou’s release apparently far exceeds their use of Zanjutsu. Ichibei and Mayuri come to mind here. Additionally Arrancar who have zero connection to the Zanpakutou and also lack a spirit, and thus have zero need need to meditate with the Zanpakutou and meet the Zanpakutou spirit also throws a massive wrench into this concept. Their mastery of Zanjutsu is completely independent of their ability to release said Zanpakutou, as is apparently the case for Shinigami and all Zanpakutou wielders as well.

Not to mention again, there’s the massive issue of non-sword Zanpakutou releases, and Zanjutsu is exclusively swordsmanship. In essence Zanjutsu refers literally to wielding the Zanpakutou as the blade that it is, but nothing of the power contained within it. In fact, “Zanpakutou Training” and the act of “Jinzen” are reflective of this reality, and the necessity to develop control of the Zanpakutou’s power as well as establishing the connection to the spirit within separate from its use as a sword. As it is presently, one’s dedication to mastering their Zanpakutou is a wholly separate discipline.

Given that there’s not enough of a basis for establishing this connection, and various points of evidence suggesting this link is canonically non-existent outside of literal functionality as a sword, it’s a very hard no to this idea. This is final.

Zanpakutou Mastery will continue to govern all aspect’s of the Zanpakutou’s power and the user’s ability to wield said until such time that strong enough reasoning can be made to act otherwise. Completely alternative approaches separate from Zanpakutou Mastery and your previous suggest is still an option, workload and functionality constraints permitting.

Then there's Reiatsu Senken, the ability to see with the spiritual sense, which- according to multiple sources including Bleach wiki- actually takes over during combat between spiritual beings, eventually determining to a great extent the outcome of the battle. This isn't something that's yet to make a concrete appearance in the stat system, either here, or even in previous incarnations of the forum, to the best of my memory. And it is SUCH a cool ability, so cool I incorporated it into Kara Masters' (my character) powers- a very advanced for of it, anyway. And this ability is tied to Reiryoku.

Those are my thoughts for now. Hope to post up some more soon.

I’ve used this ability often. Though I’m not familiar with the term “Reiatsu Senken” especially given that “Senken” means either foresight or anticipation (mistranslation?). It’s not officially established in any capacity as far as I am able to tell, though if you can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it. However their is “Reiatsu Chikaku” (Spiritual Presessure Sense), or “Reiakaku” (Spiritual Sense). Just take note that they’re different terms for the same thing pretty much, and those proficient enough in this can actually see through this rather than with their eyes (basically as you’ve described above). There’s also the ability to visualize spiritual energy as ribbons “Reiraku”. A technique that sadly only Uryuu used once, but I have made use of all of the aforementioned abilities many times in my RP when and wherever appropriate. I will, of course be incorporating these into the CBS.

Originally was intending for this to be implemented as a substat (perception) more geared towards all senses (both physical and spiritual) but perhaps it needs status as either a mainstat or some other means of handling it entirely.
Nilgathor wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:59 am
But the reiatsu control section of that branch touches something that always bothered me. Take for instance, due to some reasons behind my character’s reiatsu nature, its density makes it hard to form up as spells and such, yet, should work easily to create a reiatsu defence. Yet, the current system denies me that function, completely tying reiatsu-control to kidō usage.

Long story short, I’ll appreciate if the adjustments allow users to have reiatsu-control for other purposes without necessarily being kidō/cero users.

While it’ll still primarily designed for the “Durability” attribute to dictate all forms of defense, given its nature as a “catch all” which was to prevent the need for specialized defenses for every race, I can make further adjustments to consider a “Reiatsu defense” option. The approach to so will need to be considered however.

That said, some of the various quirks associated with the CBS are mainly methods introduced for the sake of uniformity and cleanliness with handling the various aspects of the RP and the various races. Ideally I would need unique stat systems for each race but there’s the issue of balancing and development time. So that’s why things are the way they’re setup it. Ease of maintaining balance and uniformity were key design goals that needed to be maintained when the CBS was drafted and designed.

So I was, and am aware of some of the issues with the design and I’ve needed time to kinda study the system as well as to consider how exactly to approach addressing some of those issues as elegantly as I am able, whilst also being wary of my constraints. It’s a very tricky balance but my previous post and some of the adjustments I’m planning to make should be critical steps to handlings these “built-in” problems. Also with things being broken up and slowly becoming a tiny bit more granular there should be a lot more flexibility and capacity to kinda... work out some of these problems, provided either I or someone else is thoughtful enough to do so.

Oh and as a bit of an aside here, CBS was originally designed by two people. Myself, and my former VC Silverdrake. Most of the core concept and all there were mine, but I spent about 6-8months workshopping various ideas with her until she went inactive (yet we do remain in constant contact). I inevitably finished the system myself based on the remnants of our conversation once Socks started the 2.0 project. You can actually still see the announcement of when I finished it.

That said I did and still do want the CBS to be sort of an open development thing. While I do have rules regarding that, mostly confining things to being built on top of the system as is, and requiring changes be mostly incremental in nature, I am open to anything provided valid enough reasoning and reasonable enough execution. Also I do aim to incorporate as many other suggestions as possible, even if I do initially reject them (as shown in my previous post). May not be exactly as described but I will try my best to make the most of the core suggestion.

Though if I could get some more hands on deck... not from the coding aspect but like for concepting ideas, design planning, writing descriptions, or virtually in a state where I’m not doing 90+% of the legwork more dramatic changes would be much more possible (other constraints still permitting). So, yeah... so there’s that.
Last edited by XIII on Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:31 pm, edited 6 times in total. word count: 1681

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#10

Post by Akugaranwa Itachi » Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:27 am

Don’t know how well this would work but, is it possible to make it so within the CBS that a character’s Zanpacktou has a will of its on and can be manifested at will if the right conditions are met? Would be interesting to see Zanpacktou sprits clash against each other while their masters also fights.
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#11

Post by XIII » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:30 pm

Akugaranwa Itachi wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:27 am
Don’t know how well this would work but, is it possible to make it so within the CBS that a character’s Zanpacktou has a will of its on and can be manifested at will if the right conditions are met? Would be interesting to see Zanpacktou sprits clash against each other while their masters also fights.
Wouldn’t need to use the CBS for this. Could just make this possible in the rules or through some sort of an event. If you have more surrounding this idea you should post it in the RP discussion and we can make develop it more there
word count: 115

One who calls upon the ocean never expects the tsunami.
For beckoning the rains, also tempts the hurricane.
When simple kindling begs the wildfire,
A furious inferno to devour the lands.
And to say a prayer is to provoke the wrath of God.
Know ye not your foolishness?

Akugaranwa Itachi
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Kan: 1,821.25 
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:38 pm
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CBS 2.0 / CBS Overhaul

#12

Post by Akugaranwa Itachi » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:40 am

XIII wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:30 pm
Akugaranwa Itachi wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:27 am
Don’t know how well this would work but, is it possible to make it so within the CBS that a character’s Zanpacktou has a will of its on and can be manifested at will if the right conditions are met? Would be interesting to see Zanpacktou sprits clash against each other while their masters also fights.
Wouldn’t need to use the CBS for this. Could just make this possible in the rules or through some sort of an event. If you have more surrounding this idea you should post it in the RP discussion and we can make develop it more there

Alright will do
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